Class "B" forsale (fwd)

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1

Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 13:07:47 -0700 (MST)
Resent-From: inet-access@earth.com

One class "B" Internet address available to the highest bidder.
Please call 415-854-5263 and leave a message if interested.

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2

X->One class "B" Internet address available to the highest bidder.
X->Please call 415-854-5263 and leave a message if interested.

  The way I see it, it is worth no more than $10,000. As that is what
ARIN is going to charge any corp to get a Class B. Plus some yearly maint fee.
BTW, I remember reading about someone else selling a Class B, I thought I
heard they got around $30,000 for it. I offered to take it at no cost :slight_smile:

Christian

3

I'm just a little curious. If the current policy (as stated by at least
one Draft RFC) is that IP address space is not owned, how can someone sell
a Class B? If they are selling it, that must mean that they don't actually
need it, so therefore they are obligated to return it to InterNIC. On the
other side, maybe InterNIC has an obligation to take it back.

What kinds of guarantees are there that if someone buys it, that they will
actually be able to get and keep this Class B?

Pete Kruckenberg
pete@inquo.net

4

Good questions. Furthermore

   The NIC gives IP space out to a particulr user which is registerd via
   SWIP's how and who is using it. SWIP's are required if you ever want to
   get additional IP space.

So, the seller is also put at risk at never getting additonal IP space if
the buyer does not use the entire Class B in a satisfactory manner to the
NIC. So, one could conclude the seller is likely a fly-by-night
operation. I'd be interested in hearing otherwise :wink:

.stb

5

> One class "B" Internet address available to the highest bidder.
> Please call 415-854-5263 and leave a message if interested.

I'm just a little curious. If the current policy (as stated by at least
one Draft RFC) is that IP address space is not owned, how can someone sell
a Class B?

It's a black market thing.

If they are selling it, that must mean that they don't actually
need it, so therefore they are obligated to return it to InterNIC. On the
other side, maybe InterNIC has an obligation to take it back.

Yep.

What kinds of guarantees are there that if someone buys it, that they will
actually be able to get and keep this Class B?

None. It is entirely possible that this will happen:

1. Someone will pay $50,000 cash to the seller

2. The seller will go through the motions of transferring the address
   block (which may or may not include some sort of changes to NIC
   records)

3. The NIC will refuse to change the records and/or the operators in the
   defaultless core will refuse to listen to the announcements for this
   block.

4. The buyer will ask for their money back and the seller will refuse.

5. Upon consulting a lawyer the buyer will find that they have no
   enforcable contract. Especially so if the seller no longer controls
   the block because the NIC has taken it back.

Black markets aren't quite the same as dealing in illegal drugs but
they are in a similarly shady neighborhood.

NOTE: I don't support the selling of IP addresses and I don't support
      the "ownership" of IP addresses. I believe that the the NIC's
      are stewards of a public resource and that IP addresses should
      be allocated on the basis of demonstrated need, not market forces.

Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting
Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049
http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com

6

X->One class "B" Internet address available to the highest bidder.
X->Please call 415-854-5263 and leave a message if interested.

  The way I see it, it is worth no more than $10,000. As that is what
ARIN is going to charge any corp to get a Class B. Plus some yearly maint fee.
BTW, I remember reading about someone else selling a Class B, I thought I
heard they got around $30,000 for it. I offered to take it at no cost :slight_smile:

Let us make sure that we understand one thing about ARIN.
A person can't walk in with $10,000 and buy a /16.
You will still have to justify your IP space needs the way
you do it today. What has changed is that there will be
an ongoing maint. fee.

--blast
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7

If buyer & seller make a deal, with the current model buyer will be able
to use it without any problem.

vab..

8

As has been said allready there are no fail-safes in place that I
know of which would stop the transaction. However the tradition has been
to "play nice in the sandbox" and give back addresses which are no longer
in use or not needed. Given that the over the last few years the net has
taken on a diffrent look and feel I was just wondering if there are any
firm rules on this and if not weather someone, or a group of people were
looking at the problems this presents?

          James

9

In a sense, this is one of the reasons that NANOG exists. Both the mailing
list and the meetings provide a forum for people to not only share what
works operationally, but to work out what is acceptable behavior on the
network. However, there are people that doing work that touches on this.

There is always RFC 2050 which covers IP allocation guidelines.

You might want to read through Randy Bush's slides from the last NANOG
on inter-provider cooperation http://www.psg.com/~randy/970210.nanog/

CAIDA and especially CAIDAnce are somewhat relevant
http://www.nlanr.net/Caida/ http://www.nlanr.net/COLL/caidance.html

You should look through the WG's at
http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/wg-dir.html especially the ones in the
OPS section like PIER and GRIP.

Since the nature of the network is one of voluntary cooperation to make
things work, there are no firm rules and no big brother to see that things
are put right. But if people don't play nice in the sandbox they will find
it tough to make a living in the sand business :slight_smile:

Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting
Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049
http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com