2008.02.17 NANOG Community Meeting Notes

For those unable to attend the meeting today, I took
some notes during the open NANOG Community meeting
this evening. Slides went past very quickly, so apologies
for the gaps in some of the slide contents, or for typos that
crept in due to the speed with which things progressed.

Now off to the evening reception. :slight_smile:


2008.02.17 NANOG 42 Community meeting notes

Room gets fairly packed fairly quickly.

Call to order is made at 1738 hours Pacific Time

Philip Smith is steering committee chair, and
have been since end of October to October of this

Steering comittee report
programme committee report
mail list comittee report
merit report
Jason (for alex rosens...() who is sick)
open discussion

There are open microphones, so if you have
questions, feel free to use them for questions;
state your name, as the session is being recorded,
and speak into the mike so we don't have to repeat

Steering comittee
Betty Burke (for merit)
Randy Bush
Steve Feldman (elected in oct)
Jared Mauch (elected in oct)
Chris Morrow (
Alex Pilosov
Joe Provo
Philip Smith
Todd Underwood (ex-officio, PC)
Farewell and thank you to Bill Norton and Joe Abley

All recognizable via blue badges, hopefully, for
the steering comittee (well, except ex-officios)

Highlights since NANOG41

Charter ammendments approved and implemented

2007-01: addition of MLC chair as ex-officio member of
  the steering committee
2007-02: editorial consistency in MLC nomenclature
2007-03: removal of text specifying various internal
processes to be followed within the PC, in the
interests of avoiding micromanagement

Now MLC really is MLC, a comittee, not just a manager.

Selection of PC members
Chris Morrow serves as ex-officio on PC
MLC brought up to 6 members
MLC Chair now serves as ex-officio on SC
NANOG infrastructure migration
all but main list and website to do
dedicated server for NANOG, futures mailing list is on
new system already; main list ready for migration now.

Preparations for NANOG42
Preparations for future NANOGs
18 month planning horizon is a goal

SC holds fortnightly telephone conference calls
Minutes published:

There's not much feedback, so please read and

mailing lists:
engineering/ops discussions
discussion about NANOG list itself
how to contact the steering committee
contact the PC committe
contact the mailing list admins

Wow. That's pretty confusing.

268 on the nanog-futures list, vs several thousand on
the main list.

From Philip over to Todd now.

No slides from here.
Best attended NANOG since the bust, 558 attendees
so far.

Will try to figure out why people are showing up

The PC members are under general info/program committee
on the website, bios are up there if you want to know
more; includes academics, small companies, big companies,
we try to get a cross section of the community.

how does it work? People submit talks, but not early
enoug, they talk about them, they put minutes up for
review, they talk more about the talks, and they reject
those they don't have time for or are blatant sales
talks. The submissions are getting better again.
Would LOVE to see more talks from actual operators
about actual incidents, migrations, attacks, etc.
that will really help the other operators.
It doesn't matter if they're not as polished; even
if you're not sure if it'll be a great talk, come
talk to the PC members (yellow badges), they'll help
mentor you through the process.

Talk submissions closed, and as soon as they closed,
8 or 10 really good talks came in--you REALLY need
to start submitting them as soon as the previous
NANOG closes!

Joel Jaegli from program comittee comments that
even if you just have an idea for a talk, even if
you don't think you can do it, it can be used as a
straw man for development. If you think you're
lazy and irresponsible, you can work with the PC
to get the talk developed.

Ted notes that if you have a good idea for the PC,
submit your idea, don't wait. He really wants to
see people submit sooner rather than later. The
volume of garbage is amazing. He would prefer to
rate good stuff rather than garbage.
Thank you, for corollary B from Ted Seely; if you
don't submit crap for review, don't complain about
the shit you have to sit through. :slight_smile:

Todd notes you can bounce ideas off the PC members
today, and can help couple people up to do joint

They are publishing minutes of the meetings, but
there's little evidence people actually read them.
OK, some people do read them. So they'll continue
to put them up.

Lightening talks are open; you just need an abstract
and a few points for getting a slot. Submit them
and for PC members, vote on the current submissions!

V6 only hour, you saw publicity, etc; you won't have
normal v4 connectivity; either get your v6 working,
or listen to the talk.

Questions about process, talks, etc?
Blue is steering, yellow is program,

Mailing List Committee report
David Barak, Martin Hannigan, Tim Yocum, Sue Joiner,
Alex Pilosov, Brett Watson

MLC History and People
Historical overview
susan Harris until 05
currently committe 4+ members appointed by SC plus 1
  appointed by Merit
Currently: david Barak, Tim Yocum, Brett wAtson, Sue
  Joiner (merit), Alex Pilosov (chair)
Authority: NANOG charter 7.1.2

What does MLC do
MLC purpose
AUP enforcement
cannot change AUP
make the ML more useful: The list should reflect the
  activities of the conference. If you can't point to
  the list as a justification to attend the conference,
  we're losing.
  Goal is to make list operationally useful, and as a
   reason for people to attend the conference.
Not a list police--we expect posters to self moderate.
  Goal is for people to be adult about what they post.

NANOG-L statistics
number of subscribers vs 6 months ago
nanog-list 8568 vs 8284
nanog-diest 1381 vs 1386
nanog-announce 745 vs 708
nanog-futures 289 vs 268

Current AUP
One addition about autoresponders being prohibited.
No longer requirement for posting under your real name,
no way to verify that.
You can read the text online.

AUP statistic
Between nanog41 and now
warnings 6
bans 0
persons with 2 cumulative warnings: 2
one more warning, may be kicked.

AUP enforcement policy
warning: Any mlc member can warn, MLC votes on appeals
  from warnings
bans: MLC vots to after 3+ warnings.
  SC hear appeals from both

MLC future--AUP
signal-to-noise ratio low--what can we do to improve?
guiding the conversation without stifling the conversation
AUP enforcement tools (warning/ban) not effective in
increasing SNR
Being clueless is not currently against AUP

Hopefully if enough people on the list tell you to
shut up, you're an idiot, you'll get the clue, but
some people don't seem to be getting it.

MLC future -- new initiatives
Thread summaries -- time intensive
thread statistics
poster statistics
hoping to get idiots to maybe post *less*
web gateway (blog) for threads that do not belong
  on-list (push vs pull)

People should be subscribed to futures so you can be
aware of what's going on.

List migrations
Moving from majordomo to mailman
all lists migrated except main list
mostly user-invisible
  web subscribe/unsubscribe
  digest as option
  changed mail headers (if procmailing)
when? soon!

There will be a way to handle unsubscribes via email
as well, but not sure how that will be handled yet.

MLC is you!
This is your mailing list
This is your community

MLC is NOT the list police--we really do expect the
community to self-moderate.

Alex does NOT really want to be the Putin of NANOG.

MLC transparency (TBD)
Automated filters will be posted clearly and accurately
on the website
Automated monthly statistics will be posted on website
Public minutes of monthly meetings posted in a timely
fashion on website
(pending migration to mailman)

Peter Harrison, shopping.com, many features could be
addressed via forum software; could we maybe consider
something like that?
People are too busy to read a forum.
To move off-topic threads to a forum might be more
of a possibility.

Lucy Lynch, Internet Society
List membership vs attendance at conferences
she recommends many people join the list, it's a
heartbeat, it allows them to keep track of the community
even though they never have any intent to attend a meeting.
Threads--if a thread goes in a long time, make a request to
the list for someone to summarize the thread, and it's
likely that will be enough to end the thread.
If you're migrating to mailman for the large list,
please get someone to rewrite the MonArch backend,
its default filters are poorly crafted for active lists;
she can help with that work, and she'll work with Sue.

Randy Bush, IIJ, list and meetings are/aren't correlated?
As soon as people started flying to the conference, the
list went dead; the active members on the list are the
ones attending the conferences; this is good.

Jay Hennigan, impulse internet; for truly operational
items, a mailing list is much more immediate for getting
updates on operational issues.

Steve Feldman, SC--for web forums, there's been a sense
that maybe a forum or wiki for common items could be
good for some topics; but needs interest, and someone to
set it up first.

Merit Report
Jason Russell
Andy RosenZweig
Interim filler-in for...uh.

CRG west is sponsor
Network contributions
GNI provides wireless PtP network
Trango Broadband provided internet access gears
Kapela and Ass contributed networking support
thanks to duane wessels for caching

ARIN provided funding to help support broadcasts
and archives
Internet2 supported webcasts

Beer, gear, break sponsors

Merit team onsite
Carol Wadsworth, Gale Terkeurst, David Gilbertson,
Jason Russell, Larry Blunk, Valerie Wittkop, Sue
Joiner, and Betty Burke (in our hearts!)
Pete Hoffswell

Please fill in survey re IPv6 hour.

NANOG 41 stats Albuquerque
450 Total
372 Paid
too much applause and laughter to take rest of notes

NANOG 41 Albuquerque balnace

Future sites
43 Telx Booklyn NY
44 LA, Centergate
45 Not determined (Carribean)

Other updates
WEbsite is being redesigned and moved to new server
new archive

WEbcast media improvements done
Wirecast encoding software
more powerful encoder hardware
tunnel unicast feed to ann arbor
quicktime streaming format

media NOT done yet
DV camera capture via firewire over fiber
Native multicast from event venue
merit-managed windows media and quicktime streaming servers
free up Internet2 resources

Archive stats
oct 07 5,085 hits 21916MB
nov 07 3,010 hits,

wow, that went fast.


Last 5 minutes is open discussion time. Floor is
open for any committee, for merit, for anything else,
microphones are wide open.

Nope, everyone is very happy for how every one of the
committees and committee members is performing.

Steering is yellow badges
program committee is blue badges
mailing list committee are the white badges.

Thank you all for attending, hopefully you found this
useful, if not, let them know what would be useful
for future meetings.

Philip adjourns the meeting at 1628 hours Pacific Time.